Summary:
Choppy messy day today. And I traded it very poorly. The account is down $1308.66 for the day. Here is the summary:The biggest losers were LEA and TNA. LEA was a gross error. TNA was the usual.
I went thru the day realizing it was a chop fest, I suppose I am gaining some perspective. But I still traded it: my thinking was that if I traded it well things would work out. And I went thru the day thinking that I had traded it well.
I broke the grading up into entry and stop placement today, and a brief word on the grading scale: I judge the entry as either good or bad dependent upon the behavior of the stock prior to entry (probable direction) and price point. The stops were judged either good or bad dependent upon good support and good placement. The 'goodness' of the stop is of course subject to entry, but it was possible to have a poor entry and a good stop despite the poor entry.
But, much to my chagrin, after a review of the trades I realized that I did not trade well at all. I came away with 16/33 on the entries and 17/33 on the stops. This number needs to be upwards of 90% or I shouldn't be trading.
The day was choppy, no doubt about it. But despite the chop, there were some excellent trades to be had - so easy to say end of day. Nearly all of the stocks traded today followed the EOD market buy frenzy. How to recognize the potential here? I need to be able to identify these during trading hours. Towards this end I tried to come up with a common theme as I was doing the review. I started noticing that prior to most of the big moves/trends there seemed to be some support area. 3 candles seemed to be a theme, so I started highlighting all of the 3 or more consecutive candles with fairly tight highs/lows (within 5 ticks). This is a hit and miss - some don't pan out at all, but these are usually associated with lots of variance.
Per FNG's post today it looks like he hits these on the way out: e.g., a candle closes on or near the momo support. The next candle opens flush, reverses and breaks thru. He trades on the break with the stop on the support. That of course is probably the ideal trade - after reviewing I couldn't find one stock that I traded do this today. However, if looked at in terms of resistance, I found quite a few. ANR is a decent example:
Ideally the buy would be close to the s/r. After looking at the lines I drew, this could probably be interpreted a little differently, maybe better to bump the resistance up a few ticks. Crossing the fast EMA seems to be significant as well - check out CVC:
Regardless - it is hard to quantify this approach, but something to think about.
I am surprised at how poorly I traded today - I thought I was beyond this. I didn't feel stressed as far as trading was concerned, but I was not well rested and exercised, maybe this all came into play without me realizing it.
So I spent a lot of time on this post - for my own benefit. The day was expensive and I don't want it to be in vain. If you can benefit thru my mistakes - and perhaps touch on something that I am missing - feel free to share. It is imperative that I start trading well.
Tomorrow is a new day - trade well!
Details:
Short on ANR on the 9:20 candle change (0:01) (1/1). The stop was violated by 3 ticks (1/1), but I was slow in bringing it down and it worked out. The exit was for an 9 tick scalp given the day's market. This was following the immediate market move, and I should of stayed in. Short on the 11:40 price point (0:58) (2/2) after it failed to break thru the high. The stop was placed at the previous high (6 ticks) (2/2). (-$4.81):
Long on APC at the 9:25 candle change (0:03) (3/3) with the stop placed below the previous candle low (6 ticks) (3/3). Did not capitalize on the 20 tick potential and went short after it stopped. With the lack of market support I should have exited on the candle change. I reversed after the stop, (3/4) with no support for the new stop (3/4).I exited for a small loss after it was evident the trade was a poor choice (-$39.50):
Short on BIDU on the 7:50 price point (0:09) (4/5). The stop was poorly placed and broke thru regardless (3/5) (-$59.82):
CVC was one of the few trending stocks today. I noticed it on the 10:00 o'clock high and rationalized that the failed high and longish red was a good entry point as it stalled (0:21) (5/6). The stop had some support on the previous low and it got hit with slip (4/6) (10 ticks). I tried this a total of 6 times and got stopped every time. The 7th time would of nailed it, but I may have been stopped out again. The 11:00 15 minute candle would have been green - and offered a stronger signal for the turn around, but stocks don't always wait for this. All of the losses were under $50, and 4 of them were under $30. I read this completely wrong and not sure what to do about it. The fast EMA may have lent some additional insight. This stock was just in trend mode and I was looking for a quick reverse per the rest of the market. All of this work for what would have amounted to as 40 to 50 ticks at best. I am going to call the rest of the entries and stops good as well (10/11 - entries) (9/11 - stops) (-$206.96):
Short on DNDN for the 8:15 price point (11/12) for 8 ticks max unrealized. The market support was fine for the wait and with the doji I decided to. The stop lacked clear support and I used the high on the green candle prior to the first doji as it didn't seem too bad at 10 ticks (9/12) (-$47.55):
Short on FTI on the 11:20 price point (12/13 - entries), and I was lax in bringing the stop down. It shot up on the last 5 seconds of the candle and as I was bringing the stop down - not a good combination (10/13 - stops). I then shorted on the 11:25 price point (0:18) (13/14) with a well placed stop that got tagged (4 ticks above prior high for a 8 tick stop) (11/14). I came in with a late and somewhat desperate short on the 11:55 candle (0:20) (13/15). The stop was on the previous high and was never touched (12/15) but I exited on the retrace. Shorted again on the next candle (0:20) (12/16) with no clear support for the stop (12/16) and exited as it fizzled (-$63.52):
Long on JOYG on the 10:55 price point (13/17 - entries) with good support on the stop - but I used a couple of ticks below the last red close rather than the wick, and I was pushing it at 10 ticks (12/17). This was probably the one really good entry today, a limit with a better price point probably would have been the way to go. I circled a stretch of price action that may have been tempting to play as it unfolded, but the variance is pretty wide. The tail end of it is marked by a failed breakout to the upside and a brief down trend that fizzled into the great swing up (-$47.85):
A short on LEA turned into a major burn. I came in late as it dropped and ended up chasing for the entry - I bought the low (0:46) (13/18). The volume spike should have been the flag to reverse - how did I miss it? Regardless, the spread was something like between 4 and 20 ticks and it shot way out of control before I could get the stop in (12/18). Finally just closed (-$397.78):
Chased the new low on POT (3:51) (13/19) with mediocre support on the stop which was breached (12/19). Short on the 11:30 candle change (0:06) (14/20) and closed on 31 ticks with the stop placed on the prior high (13/19). Later shorted the 11:40 candle change with a loose stop on the prior high (13/20 - entries) (13/20 - stop). Then shorted the 11:50 candle change - and chased it down (13/21). Stopped with no support for the stop (13/21). I went long on the same candle (13/22 - entries) (13/22 - stops) and scalped something like 2 ticks. Sold on the 12:55 candle change (0:00) (14/23) with stop on prior high (14/23) and came away with 10 ticks. Quite a bit of variance on some of the supported entries, and for the most part probably not very good calls (-$7.88):
Long on SLB as it broke the new high (2:40) (14/24) , with the stop place on the new high (15/24). This stock is sketchy on supported reversals, but I thought I would highlight what I saw (-$33.10):
Long on TNA as I chased the new high (2:41) (14/25 - entries) (15/25 - stop). This would have been a good trade if the entry had been timed for price point. Later long on the market's ramp up and TNA's seeming lag (1:23) (14/26) with a poor stop placement (15/26). I reversed after the stop and was stopped again (14/27 - entries) (15/27 - stop). TNA has several supported stop opportunities, most with quite a bit of variance - none of them look like very good candidates, pretty representative of the day (-$203.30):
Short on UNP on the 9:10 candle change (0:00) (15/28) with good support for the stop (16/28). Later shorted for something like 5 ticks (15/29) (16/29). Lots of stop support - but again, wide variance and overall a very choppy stock. I had no business trading it. Not sure why I did (-$14.45):
Short on VXX on the 12:20 candle change (0:04) (16/30) with mediocre stop support (17/30). Spooked exit. Later an attempt at a long (16/31) and stopped (17/31). Another horrible entry going long and stopped (16/32) (17/32). A direct line to my bank account would probably be less stressful (-$99.14):
Short on XEC (0:17) (16/33) with no stop support (17/33). Mixed bag on the stop supports (-$83.26):
very interesting observation.
ReplyDeleteDTF- My opinion, take from it what you will-I would recommend that you slow or stop real trading and simulate trade for a while. Irreversible damage your psyche will result from day after day of losing days. You are proving nothing to yourself and while you think you are learning, other darker ideas are working in on you- being lost, being wrong, questioning yourself, hesitating, missing signals and stops, not following or having a plan. Some people can be permanently crushed by these.
ReplyDeleteThe results are not good and you are going backwards.
A successful trader has tremendous self confidence and also knows when to trade and when not to. When to push and when to step back and wait for more favourable conditions. Knowing what to do and keeping your emotional self out of the proceedings is not learned in a short time or by trying to rush it along.
If you've asked yourself how long can this go on there are 2 answers - 1. until you learn 2. until you run out of money.
Don't let it become #2.
Trading a funny game. What looks so simple and easy from the outside turns out to be the hardest thing for most people to do. That's what makes it so maddening I suppose for those that can't.
It would be a horrible feeling to wake up in the morning knowing you probably have to run on the losing treadmill again today.
Instead, just step back, sim trade or paper trade. Get back on track. Get back to the basics. Discover and build your confidence. Work on you concentration skill again.
Take a break for a week. Don't even look at anything trading related.
-FNG
FNG: Thanks for the input man - I really appreciate it. Definitely going to give it a lot of consideration.
ReplyDeleteScott has some good points, and I would definitely reiterate the fact that you want to survive. If you are trading in a way where you say "I have to be profitable by XX/20XX or I have to quit," then that is not the way to go at all. However I get the feeling that isn't what you are doing.
ReplyDeleteWhat I would disagree with Scott about is the irreversible psychological damage. You can rest assured you know enough about the market at this point. After 6 months doing this semi-actively (or even less time), it is quite easy to identify buying and selling opportunities. You also are not going to happen upon some bit of market intricacy that is going to open all the doors for you. Yes there are still levels of detail in how the market can act that you do not know, but at this point, the learning phase of market action is over for you.
What is left? Psychology, and it is here that I disagree with Scott. While you can gain the mental qualities of a pro trader overtime, if you want them fast, there is really only one reliable way I know of doing it. It is not easy, but it is the only way, and it WORKS as long as you never, ever, ever quit. That method is the pit of hell method. Unless a pro trader was raised in a trading family where they are taught from a young age, most pros learn this way. Put yourself in the worst psychological hell you can imagine, while at the same time keeping all other parts of your life stable. You do not want your home, your relationships, you financial security, or your life on the line. You just want your trading ability on the line, and then push and test it mercilessly.
Keep pushing, day after day, exactly contrary to what Scott advises you to do. You cannot build confidence with paper trading, or taking a break, or whatever. Building confidence with paper trading is like being a good shot with a pistol, and being a good duelist. There is a big difference between hitting a target while standing still, and hitting a target with another guy shooting at you.
You build confidence by going to the mattresses with Hell, and Hell takes a walk. You build confidence when you tear everything down inside that you thought you were (through fire), and find that you are still alive. Literally, you have to give up yourself to find yourself. Keep pushing it emotionally, don't ever quit, and find that you don't need to build confidence, you already have it.
damn son, he questions the master! i'm going to go right down the middle, i agree with a little bit of each. well, maybe i would lean more towards scott. after losing for 3 months straight, i got to go to work for 4 weeks traveling around the country. when i came back, i was refreshed and ready to tackle the market all over again. no more burnt out feeling. tarigal, how do you get rid of a negative feeling after having bad day after bad day after bad day?
ReplyDeleteGreat insights Targial and I like the way you put it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with much of what you say - hence the reversing of my decision to start paper trading awhile back. I decided to just go for it, setting aside an amount of the funds, suffering the consequences, reaping the rewards. I think this suits my personality and learning style. I am fully convinced I can do this trading thing. (Silly me - heh?)
However at the same time a day of losses does nothing for me. This became evident a couple of weeks ago when I had two 1.2k losses back to back. End of the second day I was just trading because I wanted to avoid thinking about the day's losses. Stupid silly trades. Numb trades. Not a good place to be.
I have yet to be in that place since then, I recognized it after the fact and worked it out over the weekend - and I quit looking at the PnL. But if it happens again, I think perhaps clearing the head and ego is in order. Even if only for an hour or so. Even if only to convince myself that I can do this. I am convinced that self doubt contributes to more bad trades and even more self doubt - and fear.
I decided to compromise for a bit, reducing my trade size and trying to be more selective in my entries, at least until I get my edge honed.
Thanks for sharing man.
If one cannot trade when there is no pressure of loss (paper-trading), then one surely will not be able to do it with the pressure of real money on the line. It is the age-old idea of learning to crawl before learning to walk.
ReplyDelete-
The person who can shoot well at a stationary target has the advantage in a fight over the person who trains by using real ammunition in a real fight. Why? Because the person who does not put his life at risk in his training is actually going to be alive to fight when it counts. Education by attrition is ludicrous, in the market or in a fire-fight. Yes, the most skilled will survive, but why risk the long odds of survival? One can become successful without becoming grist for the mill.
By the way, I am a pistol shooter and I do it competitively. I am also a certified firearms instructor in two disciplines. The class I help teach includes portions of self-defense with a firearm, as well as operation basics and safety. I hold a concealed carry permit and I instruct part of the class which allows one to apply for a concealed carry permit in the State of Maine. Anyone who suggests that target proficiency is not an integral part of training is an idiot. It runs counter to everything I have been taught all my life and counter to what I teach to new shooters.
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My sense is that you understand and know the difference between wisdom and bullshit.